Talk:Quest Guide Template - Revision history

imported>Arkalor's Bot: Text replace - "Summoning of T'thuun" to "Summoning T'thuun"

2012-07-16T02:19:24Z

Text replace - "Summoning of T'thuun" to "Summoning T'thuun"

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:19, 15 July 2012
(No difference)

imported>Arkalor's Bot: Text replace - "Summoning of T'thuun" to "Summoning T'thuun"

2012-07-16T02:19:24Z

Text replace - "Summoning of T'thuun" to "Summoning T'thuun"

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:19, 15 July 2012
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	\| Indent = :::::		\| Indent = :::::
	\| To = Atarax, An Adventurer		\| To = Atarax, An Adventurer
	\| Text = I've incorporated the suggestions into the template and the [[Summoning of T'thuun]] page uses it so you can see an example. The ToC cannot be included directly below the image because it would extend the overall table and push down the start of the content so it just floats at the start of the content instead (leaving the quest links in the table allows quick access to maps in a predictable location). I think we should leave the quest image size arbitrary as that is the gateway image and should be cropped to fit the content. Now that it no longer overlaps in small browser windows a standard size isn't critical.		\| Text = I've incorporated the suggestions into the template and the [[Summoning T'thuun]] page uses it so you can see an example. The ToC cannot be included directly below the image because it would extend the overall table and push down the start of the content so it just floats at the start of the content instead (leaving the quest links in the table allows quick access to maps in a predictable location). I think we should leave the quest image size arbitrary as that is the gateway image and should be cropped to fit the content. Now that it no longer overlaps in small browser windows a standard size isn't critical.

	I very much like what you've done with the Clutch of Kings, I think for more elaborate quest pages we could have a separate page template that doesn't use wiki templates in order to give the maximum amount of flexibility in customizing to best fit the content (and since the people most likely to undertake the very large, complex quest writeups will likely be experienced wiki contributors). After we've finished tweaking it we can use what Atarax has done as the framework for the elaborate template. Perhaps also with options for the sections as well (using it on a few other quests like Lady Aerfalle and Undead Mechanic for example will help see if there's any additional angles to consider). We could use the standard quest template for initial postings and move to the elaborate template as needed.		I very much like what you've done with the Clutch of Kings, I think for more elaborate quest pages we could have a separate page template that doesn't use wiki templates in order to give the maximum amount of flexibility in customizing to best fit the content (and since the people most likely to undertake the very large, complex quest writeups will likely be experienced wiki contributors). After we've finished tweaking it we can use what Atarax has done as the framework for the elaborate template. Perhaps also with options for the sections as well (using it on a few other quests like Lady Aerfalle and Undead Mechanic for example will help see if there's any additional angles to consider). We could use the standard quest template for initial postings and move to the elaborate template as needed.

imported>Tlosk at 01:48, 21 April 2009

2009-04-21T01:48:16Z

imported>Tlosk: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-03-05T12:39:10Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:39, 5 March 2009
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	}}		}}
	{{Post		{{Post
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	\| Text = I like the template, and especially the optional possibilities for different titles and xp rewards. However, I noticed when using the xp reward table, the Description does not show up when using this template (See [[Bur Mushroom Collection]]). I noticed the same thing in the Test Quest Page. --[[User:Sanddh\|Sanddh]] 3:30, 5 March 2009 (CET)		\| Text = I like the template, and especially the optional possibilities for different titles and xp rewards. However, I noticed when using the xp reward table, the Description does not show up when using this template (See [[Bur Mushroom Collection]]). I noticed the same thing in the Test Quest Page. --[[User:Sanddh\|Sanddh]] 3:30, 5 March 2009 (CET)
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			\| Text = Oops I started changing it and got sidetracked before I finished. It should all be working now (instead of having unique parameters for each task, it now uses a subtemplate for each row which keeps the names simpler and lets us add as many tasks as needed). --[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 06:39, 5 March 2009 (CST)
	}}		}}

imported>Sanddh: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-03-05T02:36:10Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:36, 4 March 2009
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	I'm going to move this to the normal page now and update some old quests to try to catch any more errors, we can continue to tweak it though as needed. --[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 18:19, 19 February 2009 (CST)		I'm going to move this to the normal page now and update some old quests to try to catch any more errors, we can continue to tweak it though as needed. --[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 18:19, 19 February 2009 (CST)
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			{{Post
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			\| Text = I like the template, and especially the optional possibilities for different titles and xp rewards. However, I noticed when using the xp reward table, the Description does not show up when using this template (See [[Bur Mushroom Collection]]). I noticed the same thing in the Test Quest Page. --[[User:Sanddh\|Sanddh]] 3:30, 5 March 2009 (CET)
	}}		}}

imported>Tlosk: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-02-20T00:19:11Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:19, 19 February 2009
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	{{Post		{{Post
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	\| Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)		\| Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)
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	\| Text = I think that since the appendix sections are going to be a somewhat rare occurrence, they don't need to be included in the basic template. I think it would be better to add a note in the Quest Guide Template once it is updated that says something like "For quest that require additional information, such as riddle questions and answers, Create a new section header under Images (or where ever)"		\| Text = I think that since the appendix sections are going to be a somewhat rare occurrence, they don't need to be included in the basic template. I think it would be better to add a note in the Quest Guide Template once it is updated that says something like "For quest that require additional information, such as riddle questions and answers, Create a new section header under Images (or where ever)"
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	I agree, the quick links could use something like "Jump To", "Shortcuts", "Table of Contents" or whatever, and should be displayed in the same order as the sections they link to.		I agree, the quick links could use something like "Jump To", "Shortcuts", "Table of Contents" or whatever, and should be displayed in the same order as the sections they link to.
	--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 16:31, 17 February 2009 (CST)		--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 16:31, 17 February 2009 (CST)
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			{{Post
			\| Indent = :::
			\| Text = The ordering was a mistake and has been fixed. I can put the appendix information in the bulleted list at the start.

			I agree we should keep items a single section and separate the items and rewards into different tables within the section.

			I have a strong preference for using the same format for links as is used for internal pages, also it degrades more gracefully in small browser windows.

			I'm going to move this to the normal page now and update some old quests to try to catch any more errors, we can continue to tweak it though as needed. --[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 18:19, 19 February 2009 (CST)
	}}		}}

imported>An Adventurer: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-02-17T22:31:12Z

Last Minute Critique

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   | Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)
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imported>Atarax: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-02-17T21:22:56Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:22, 17 February 2009
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	\| Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)		\| Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)

imported>Atarax: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-02-17T20:58:42Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:58, 17 February 2009
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	Just my .o2 cents, but everything looks good so far! --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 13:28, 17 February 2009 (CST)		Just my .o2 cents, but everything looks good so far! --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 13:28, 17 February 2009 (CST)
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			\| Text = I posted an example of a possible quick links block on the [[Test Quest Page‎]]. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 14:58, 17 February 2009 (CST)
	}}		}}

imported>Atarax: /* Last Minute Critique */

2009-02-17T19:49:16Z

Last Minute Critique

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:49, 17 February 2009
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	* The "Jump to" links at the top are out of order. I think they should be in the same order as the sections themselves.		* The "Jump to" links at the top are out of order. I think they should be in the same order as the sections themselves.

	* I think it might be more clear that the "Quick Links" are anchors" if we either made it look a little different, or simply added a '''Jump To:''' prefix before the links (similar to the intro template). Right now, it kind of looks like its going to take you to another page entirely. Another idea might be to align the links to the ~~right~~ side, and then add that "Quest" image/icon that Tlosk made ~~on the left~~. Might give it a little more flare?		* I think it might be more clear that the "Quick Links" are anchors" if we either made it look a little different, or simply added a '''Jump To:''' prefix before the links (similar to the intro template). Right now, it kind of looks like its going to take you to another page entirely. Another idea might be to align the links to the left side, and then add that "Quest" image/icon that Tlosk made next to them. Might give it a little more flare?

	* Any idea if we want to add the appendix section? Quests like [[Harbinger (Quest)]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]] have supplementary resources like riddles and Harbinger Items. In the current template, where should this be placed? If we made a standardized (and optional) appendix section above the "Images", it might clear that up.		* Any idea if we want to add the appendix section? Quests like [[Harbinger (Quest)]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]] have supplementary resources like riddles and Harbinger Items. In the current template, where should this be placed? If we made a standardized (and optional) appendix section above the "Images", it might clear that up.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:48, 20 April 2009
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	* I think it might be more clear that the "Quick Links" are anchors" if we either made it look a little different, or simply added a '''Jump To:''' prefix before the links (similar to the intro template). Right now, it kind of looks like its going to take you to another page entirely. Another idea might be to align the links to the left side, and then add that "Quest" image/icon that Tlosk made next to them. Might give it a little more flare?		* I think it might be more clear that the "Quick Links" are anchors" if we either made it look a little different, or simply added a '''Jump To:''' prefix before the links (similar to the intro template). Right now, it kind of looks like its going to take you to another page entirely. Another idea might be to align the links to the left side, and then add that "Quest" image/icon that Tlosk made next to them. Might give it a little more flare?

	* Any idea if we want to add the appendix section? Quests like [[Harbinger (Quest)]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]] have supplementary resources like riddles and Harbinger Items. In the current template, where should this be placed? If we made a standardized (and optional) appendix section above the "Images", it might clear that up.		* Any idea if we want to add the appendix section? Quests like [[Harbinger Quest]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]] have supplementary resources like riddles and Harbinger Items. In the current template, where should this be placed? If we made a standardized (and optional) appendix section above the "Images", it might clear that up.

	* Kind of last minute, but do you think it would be a good idea to separate the ''Quest Items'' and ''Item Rewards''? Since we have ''XP Rewards'', and ''Title Rewards'', it kind of seems like ''Item Rewards'' should be of "similar importance" on a category heading level.		* Kind of last minute, but do you think it would be a good idea to separate the ''Quest Items'' and ''Item Rewards''? Since we have ''XP Rewards'', and ''Title Rewards'', it kind of seems like ''Item Rewards'' should be of "similar importance" on a category heading level.
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	* For the first "Jump To" block. Make it the exact width of the quest summary block, and then have it positioned right above the "Quest Summary" block. Then you can remove the "Jump To" that's below the teaser image. I suppose we could keep it there also, for usability, and it would look better if it were the exact width of the quest summary block.		* For the first "Jump To" block. Make it the exact width of the quest summary block, and then have it positioned right above the "Quest Summary" block. Then you can remove the "Jump To" that's below the teaser image. I suppose we could keep it there also, for usability, and it would look better if it were the exact width of the quest summary block.

	* We could create an "Appendix", like "Appendix A", "Appendix B", etc... or like "Appendix (XP)", "Appendix (Titles)", etc... at the bottom of every writeup which could contain the XP table, title charts, etc... So for titles and XP distributions that require these tables, you could have a "See Appendix A" or "See Appendix B" links under XP or titles sections for people to click on. This might also be a standardized way to organize ''all'' "supplemental" tables/charts. I was thinking the same could be done to the [[Harbinger (Quest)]], where the Harbinger Items could be listed under an Appendix with everything else.		* We could create an "Appendix", like "Appendix A", "Appendix B", etc... or like "Appendix (XP)", "Appendix (Titles)", etc... at the bottom of every writeup which could contain the XP table, title charts, etc... So for titles and XP distributions that require these tables, you could have a "See Appendix A" or "See Appendix B" links under XP or titles sections for people to click on. This might also be a standardized way to organize ''all'' "supplemental" tables/charts. I was thinking the same could be done to the [[Harbinger Quest]], where the Harbinger Items could be listed under an Appendix with everything else.

	Other than that, its looking good. I think we should get it finalized and put it into production! :) --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 16:19, 11 February 2009 (CST)		Other than that, its looking good. I think we should get it finalized and put it into production! :) --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 16:19, 11 February 2009 (CST)
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	This is the reason why I thought having a "Rewards" section would be more useful than trying to cram it all into a small summary block. The summary block becomes a problem on quests like [[Lady Aerfalle (Quest)]], where half the "items" are rewards, the other half are just items you use along the way. So saying "see below" really doesn't help you find out what items are rewards from the quest, unless you're already familiar with it.		This is the reason why I thought having a "Rewards" section would be more useful than trying to cram it all into a small summary block. The summary block becomes a problem on quests like [[Lady Aerfalle Quest]], where half the "items" are rewards, the other half are just items you use along the way. So saying "see below" really doesn't help you find out what items are rewards from the quest, unless you're already familiar with it.


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	\| Text = Similar to the [[Talk:Point of Interest Template]], and others that have have the possibility of several live images, I think there needs to be a standardization of image naming, size, and display. Here's a few standardization techniques we could use:		\| Text = Similar to the [[Talk:Point of Interest Template]], and others that have have the possibility of several live images, I think there needs to be a standardization of image naming, size, and display. Here's a few standardization techniques we could use:

	* Live quest images should be added as 800x800px. Having all the images the same size really makes the page look a lot better. When they are all different, the page gets out of whack, like in the [http://asheron.info/~asheron/index.php?title=Elysa%~~27s_Favor_(Quest)~~&oldid=77177 Elysa's Favor (Quest)] article.		* Live quest images should be added as 800x800px. Having all the images the same size really makes the page look a lot better. When they are all different, the page gets out of whack, like in the [http://asheron.info/~asheron/index.php?title=Elysa%27s_Favor_Quest&oldid=77177 Elysa's Favor Quest] article.
	* Images should be displayed with the thumbnail wrapper using the <nowiki>\|thumb\|</nowiki> feature.		* Images should be displayed with the thumbnail wrapper using the <nowiki>\|thumb\|</nowiki> feature.
	* Images should be named ''Article Name Image 1.jpg'', ''Article Name Image 2.jpg'', ''Article Name Image 3.jpg'', etc...		* Images should be named ''Article Name Image 1.jpg'', ''Article Name Image 2.jpg'', ''Article Name Image 3.jpg'', etc...
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	\| Text = Unfortunately 800x800 creates very large file sizes and also wouldn't be possible for people that play in 800x600 or 1028x768 to create. One way of creating a more standard layout and uniform appearance with images that differ in dimension is to use the [[How To Use Images#Image Gallery \|gallery function]].		\| Text = Unfortunately 800x800 creates very large file sizes and also wouldn't be possible for people that play in 800x600 or 1028x768 to create. One way of creating a more standard layout and uniform appearance with images that differ in dimension is to use the [[How To Use Images#Image Gallery \|gallery function]].

	For example [[Elysa's Favor (Quest)#Images]]:		For example [[Elysa's Favor Quest#Images]]:

	<pre>		<pre>
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	== Multi-Level/Version Quest Guide ==		== Multi-Level/Version Quest Guide ==
	I think we need to come up with standardized template to handle "Multi-level" and "multi-version" quests. There are several that I know of, like [[Zaikhal Defender]], The Blackmire Series, [[Harbinger (Quest)]], and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]]. The format we use for a quest writeup, especially with the new ''Quest Links'' format doesn't really work if we combine the write-ups, plus it gets very long and confusing when part of the quest is shared and other parts are unique (like Harbinger). I think its still a good idea to keep them on one page, but perhaps some way to standardize them would be good? Its actually relatively easy for quests like [[Zaikhal Defender]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]], as you'll see I simply put the level requirement in the title, like '''Walkthrough (80+)'''. But, for quests like [[Harbinger (Quest)]], where there really is no level requirement, and you could choose to do either version at any time, what should we do to organize this? I tried to clean it up a little bit, but right now I think that write-up is pretty messy. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 11:11, 15 January 2009 (CST)		I think we need to come up with standardized template to handle "Multi-level" and "multi-version" quests. There are several that I know of, like [[Zaikhal Defender]], The Blackmire Series, [[Harbinger Quest]], and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]]. The format we use for a quest writeup, especially with the new ''Quest Links'' format doesn't really work if we combine the write-ups, plus it gets very long and confusing when part of the quest is shared and other parts are unique (like Harbinger). I think its still a good idea to keep them on one page, but perhaps some way to standardize them would be good? Its actually relatively easy for quests like [[Zaikhal Defender]] and [[Gaerlan's Citadel]], as you'll see I simply put the level requirement in the title, like '''Walkthrough (80+)'''. But, for quests like [[Harbinger Quest]], where there really is no level requirement, and you could choose to do either version at any time, what should we do to organize this? I tried to clean it up a little bit, but right now I think that write-up is pretty messy. --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 11:11, 15 January 2009 (CST)

	:I had more typed up, but I think it should all come down to this: If the different versions of quests share timers, they should be listed as a single quest. If their timers are unique, then give them each a page. My guess is that very few quests with multiple versions share timers. --[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 11:51, 15 January 2009 (CST)		:I had more typed up, but I think it should all come down to this: If the different versions of quests share timers, they should be listed as a single quest. If their timers are unique, then give them each a page. My guess is that very few quests with multiple versions share timers. --[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 11:51, 15 January 2009 (CST)
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	:::As far as the ACMaps, I would love to host maps here. But Greeneye holds the copyright (even on maps I made myself) so unless he changes his mind we have no recourse. Back when this happened An Adventurer and I started working on a new map format just for the wiki (Greeneye didn't want us to use the ACMaps format either), but it has kind of stalled (I was working on a new mapping utility but haven't worked on it for a few months). Also there's a potential collaboration in the works for providing customized spawn maps, and depending on how that turns out it may provide some new directions for our dungeon maps as well. But as long as the maps are available at ACMaps it's kind of considered a low priority since we won't be providing new content, just more convenient content and it will be time consuming. At any rate you don't have to worry about losing anything, I've already made arrangements to avoid any losses whatever might happen.--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 14:27, 2 January 2009 (CST)		:::As far as the ACMaps, I would love to host maps here. But Greeneye holds the copyright (even on maps I made myself) so unless he changes his mind we have no recourse. Back when this happened An Adventurer and I started working on a new map format just for the wiki (Greeneye didn't want us to use the ACMaps format either), but it has kind of stalled (I was working on a new mapping utility but haven't worked on it for a few months). Also there's a potential collaboration in the works for providing customized spawn maps, and depending on how that turns out it may provide some new directions for our dungeon maps as well. But as long as the maps are available at ACMaps it's kind of considered a low priority since we won't be providing new content, just more convenient content and it will be time consuming. At any rate you don't have to worry about losing anything, I've already made arrangements to avoid any losses whatever might happen.--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 14:27, 2 January 2009 (CST)

	:::: I just checked out the [[Mukkir Aspect of Grael]], and I really like what you did there a lot. I think that should be the standard template for all quests. Another reason why I think this is a good idea is for quests that have a lot of maps. For example, I just finished the [[Brewmaster (Quest)]] write-up, and it has at least 3 maps. Having them in their own section would be a lot cleaner then cramming them into the summary block, even if they're just links to ACMaps. Good work! --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 10:52, 3 January 2009 (CST)		:::: I just checked out the [[Mukkir Aspect of Grael]], and I really like what you did there a lot. I think that should be the standard template for all quests. Another reason why I think this is a good idea is for quests that have a lot of maps. For example, I just finished the [[Brewmaster Quest]] write-up, and it has at least 3 maps. Having them in their own section would be a lot cleaner then cramming them into the summary block, even if they're just links to ACMaps. Good work! --[[User:Atarax\|Atarax]] 10:52, 3 January 2009 (CST)

	::I understand that, especially with multiple maps, the summary looks bad. But it might be an idea to bring the paragraph of Maps up higher? Some walkthroughs can become rather long, and as a user (not writer ;) )of the quest guides, I like to immediately do "right click-new tab" for the map, and then read the walkthrough. Then about images and such, is it possible to get a sub-template for adding images in the general template? like.. table like? Thx! [[User:Sanddh\|Sanddh]] 2:07, 12 January 2009 (CET)		::I understand that, especially with multiple maps, the summary looks bad. But it might be an idea to bring the paragraph of Maps up higher? Some walkthroughs can become rather long, and as a user (not writer ;) )of the quest guides, I like to immediately do "right click-new tab" for the map, and then read the walkthrough. Then about images and such, is it possible to get a sub-template for adding images in the general template? like.. table like? Thx! [[User:Sanddh\|Sanddh]] 2:07, 12 January 2009 (CET)